Lisa Leong might just be one of the most effervescent students to grace the corridors of AFTRS. She has been described as “smart and funny and short – the triple threat!” by Jacinta Parsons (Afternoons presenter, ABC Radio Melbourne) and that is certainly the way she comes across. Bursting with energy and ideas, Lisa doesn’t do things by halves. This spirit and determination has seen her travel the world as a lawyer, become a radio presenter, podcaster and public speaker, and most recently author her first book. AFTRS Alumni Program Manager Christine Kirkwood sat down with Lisa to catch up on the twenty years that have passed since leaving AFTRS with a Graduate Diploma in Radio Broadcasting.
Christine Kirkwood: You’ve talked about your passion for radio being sparked in a retail job, making announcements about weekly specials over the PA system, but I want to go back further to discovering the power of your voice in early life. Do you remember when that occurred?
Lisa Leong: Yes! I remember being cast in my Grade 5 musical as the evil fox. I had to sing a number and even though I was small I found a sense of power and connection through my voice. It was a joyful moment. When I left primary school, one of my teachers wrote that I had a ‘golden voice’ which made me smile. It’s a really happy memory and I wonder if I’ve tried to conjure those emotions through what I do throughout life. We talk a lot about ‘having a voice’ or ‘finding your voice’ and it’s important to play and be curious to uncover what that means for you.
CK: You have had a rich career in a variety of roles, from lawyer to broadcaster, do you think that variety has shaped who you are today?
LL: Absolutely. I now look at things in an additive way. Rather than feeling like I’ve spread myself thin or that there is tension between those roles, I feel all of it is a part of me. I often joke that I’m a ‘recovering lawyer’ but it is actually such an important part of my career and I loved my time in law. It’s the variety and curiosity that gives different perspectives and allows you to understand that there’s never just one answer. There are a lot of different ways of looking at things.
CK: How did you come to study at AFTRS and in what ways did the course help your career?
LL: I started volunteering in hospital radio in London at night while working as a lawyer by day. I really fell in love with radio there and started knocking on doors in the commercial radio world. That’s where I started doing a Sunday afternoon show with Zoe Mack. I realised how difficult it would be to secure a full-time gig in radio. I thought about what the most risk-averse way might be to get there, and re-training seemed like the best option. I researched courses around the world and of course, AFTRS was one of the most appealing options. The radio course not only teaches you how to be a great presenter but it has a really strong track record of securing employment upon graduation. I was nervous about the application process because it was really hard to get in. So I applied while still working, and was only going to resign when I had everything locked in. When [former Head of Radio] Steve Ahern called me to offer me a place I was in my pyjamas in London and I was elated. I resigned that day and told my parents I was coming back to Australia to be a radio presenter. I didn’t think twice from that moment, I just followed my gut instinct.
CK: You’ve interviewed a diverse range of guests on a huge array of topics on your ABC podcast This Working Life for Radio National – is diversity something you consider when planning your program?
LL: My curiosity leads me to different takes on common themes. My producers and I shine a light on recent developments which naturally brings diversity. We explore and enunciate diversity in the way we go about things. So yes, diversity is a lens that we always apply to the program but never in a forced way.
My team is my squad and we’re always on a treasure hunt tracking down the world’s experts in different fields. We see people as whole human beings, not just as the role they’re in, and I like to think that gives colour and texture to the interviews. We’re interested not just in their work but in them as human beings.
In a recent episode ‘The Ministry of Common Sense’ we spoke to author Martin Lindstrom. His opening story about being confused by a remote control in a hotel room was so relatable. Through those moments we try to capture the zeitgeist and find ways to be both light and deep, and to ultimately present ideas that people don’t even realise they’ve been wondering about.
CK: Do you have a favourite guest from the show so far?
LL: I don’t know that I have a favourite but I have a good story to share. [Chef and author] Yottam Ottolenghi once came on the show, and my producer was a big fan. I knew who he was but I’m not a cook so I wasn’t sure how best to relate to him. My producer suggested I cook him my infamous signature dish ‘Lisa’s Lentil Slops’ which was surprisingly published in an ABC cookbook once! I cooked it at home that morning and my daughter cried the smell was that bad. I then heated it up and passed it to him in the studio. When I asked him how to zjoosh it up, he paused and said ‘Start afresh’. Laughter ensued. It was a really fun interview though, and so interesting to hear his story of transitioning from journalist to chef.
In addition to that, all the interviews we’ve done through covid have been eye-opening. So many things prior to the pandemic seemed impossible. But it’s like these past few years have given us permission to re-design our work and home lives. We’ve been given the chance to examine our identity and find out what we really want.
There was a recent episode on long Covid, and ironically, I contracted Covid as I was finishing the episode. I took heed of everything I’ve learned from the show and stopped to heal and recover immediately.
CK: This Working Life: How to Navigate Your Career in Uncertain Times was co-written with Monique Ross and published by Hardie Grant in February 2022, were you inspired by your guests to find your voice as a writer?
LL: Yes, the guests we had on the show inspired me, and also finding the time in the pandemic. There seemed to be a deeper need arising around the world for personal reflection. Finding my voice as a writer was interesting. I had the realisation that I love collaboration and discovering that writing could be a joint process was wonderful. Finding my blended voice on the page with Monique was super energising. Monique is very organised and was a very calm guide throughout the process. We had a great team and the combined effort was inspiring.
CK: You were recently interviewed on beloved ABC radio program Conversations, what was that experience like, being vulnerable on the other side of the mic?
LL: I learned so much being held as a guest on that program. The team created such a safe space. I had a long pre-interview chat with one of the producers Nicola Harrison and we agreed on what to cover. Then the interview itself with Sarah Kanowski was amazing. She REALLY listened. Some of the stories that came out were the first time I was sharing in a public space. I felt very heard and held which was incredible. She also leapt at the opportunity to spontaneously explore new ground like when I mentioned ‘tuna tossing’ in passing – she didn’t let that one go through to the keeper! That was a joyful memory from my time as the ABC breakfast presenter in Port Lincoln SA.
CK: Has being interviewed a lot recently [for the release of This Working Life, the book] changed the way you interview your guests?
LL: I’m always learning. I always strive to be a better listener. I love airchecks for that reason. In seeking better connections with others, it would be great to do airchecks in our day-to-day lives!
CK: What kinds of topics are your ABC Sunday Morning listeners interested in Melbourne?
LL: The Sunday morning show is live radio – so it’s such fun! My favourite element is our callers – it’s like hanging out with friends over brunch. We catch up on the news together, we chat a bit about sport – we learn something that makes our lives a little bit better for the week ahead. Oh, and I might throw in an 80s song or two for a Sunday boogie! The intention of the program is to cultivate a sense of belonging, through connection and curiosity.
CK: What would you say now to your younger self starting out in radio?
The problem is, I know young Lisa, and she doesn’t listen to advice. So I’d say ‘You’re on your own, Sunshine!’
CK: OK we’ll re-phrase the question then. What would you say to the Graduate Diploma in Radio and Podcasting students studying right now at AFTRS?
LL: Every day is ‘lab day’. You’re always learning and honing your craft. There’s no hurry. There’s room for everyone. Wherever you go is great.
